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July 22, 2008 |  20 comments |  Print  Your Opinion  

Wolfgang Ischinger

Europe Needs to be More Assertive in Transatlantic Relations

Wolfgang Ischinger: The transatlantic relationship will benefit from a kind of renaissance when the next US president is elected. Rather than sitting on the sidelines and waiting for US demands, Europe should actively develop strategic initiatives and explain European priorities to the US.

Ambassador Wolfgang Ischinger spoke to the Atlantic Community's partner organization, the World Security Network:

The Atlantic Community editorial team summarized his main arguments from the video interview above:

Ambassador Wolfgang Ischinger has a different view on the transatlantic relationship than most--he's optimistic and believes that "we the Europeans" do not wish to live in disharmony with our American friends. While his children may have violently criticized certain American policy decisions, they are also deeply involved in American culture. Many young Europeans are delighted when they have a chance to study or live in the United States. We share the same fundamental values.

As we look at a new President, regardless of who that is going to be, there will be some kind of a honeymoon--a renaissance--of the transatlantic relationship. There will also be great willingness by European leaders to respond positively to whatever initiatives the next administration may propose. However, we shouldn't leave the initiatives to America. We Europeans should consider our own responsibility to develop strategic initiatives. We should explain to our American friends what our priorities are, and what we expect of them, and not just wait until they tell us what they expect of us. That is the kind of mature relationship that we should aspire to, where we give and take, and where America also gives and takes. That does not mean that American leadership is contestable, in fact for a long time to come, for military reasons, for political reasons, and for other reasons, the West will need to be led by America, but the West will be a better place if a stronger and more self-confident Europe can play a bigger role and carry a larger share in the common endeavor.

Wolfgang Ischinger is the Ambassador of the Federal Republic of Germany to the Court of St. James. Since early August 2007, he has also represented the European Union in the Troika negotiations on Kosovo.

This video interview was conducted by the Atlantic Community's partner organization, the World Security Network.

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Andreas  Beckmann

July 22, 2008

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I agree with most of Ambassador Ischinger's observations.

However, I do not expect that "honeymoon" to last very long, at least not in terms of public (or: publicized) opinion in Europe.
If the Senator from Ilinois were elected, the current "Obamania" would end abruptly once Europeans realize that the new President can not make their fairytale dreams about international politics come true. And when Obama will demand a lot more tangible European contributions (as any new US President will), the manic affection here may very well turn into its opposite. Unanswered love can easily turn into hatred.

The convenient thing about Bush Jr. for the anti-Americans all around the globe is that he provides such an easy target for ignorants. Blame it all on America, discard all US claims and initiatives right away, and evade your own responsibility by finger-pointing at Washington. Once the - admittedly uncongenial - Bush Jr. administration is gone, that strategy may cease to work, and many people in Europe might suddenly see themselves deprived of their cheap (and self-awarded) "moral superiority", and instead asked to come up with real, credible, and tangible alternatives.

And that's where I would like to add two things to Ambassador Ischinger's statements.
Before "Europe" can become more assertive vis-avis our American partners without being laughed at, or being ignored, or causing a lot more irritated frowns in DC, Europeans will first have to:

1. agree on what they want, i.e. find realistic common assesments on important issues and speak on them with one voice in a timely manner,

2. substantially increase their tangbible efforts, e.g. defense spending, force modernization, and readiness to take over responsibility in areas where it really hurts.

I can't really see that either of these two prerequisites are imminent on this side of the Atlantic. So I'm afraid that the European Union is still far from playing the (desirable and necessary!) substantial role as a partner in leadership (who then could really be more assertive) which it has been playing in its own megalomaniac fantasies and corresponding lip service for more than a decade now.
Both the US and the EU are up for some more mutual disappointment once an administration enters office in Washington which can not be conveniently disregarded any more. It does not make much difference if Obama is the man, or McCain.
Much more hard work ahead for all those who understand that the EU and die US are sitting in the same boat, and can not prevail against today's and tomorrow's challenges without one another.
 
Donald  Stadler

July 22, 2008

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Andreas, I mostly agree with you except for one major points and a few quibbles.

The major point is that I think you underestimate the observed ability of many or most Europeans to self-delude. Yes Europe needs to bring a lot more to the table - but I see few effective efforts to do so. Put it this way - Germany has managed to train up 250 presumably combat-ready troops for deployment in Afghanistan. How many years did that take - 5 or 6? At that rate - let's not hold our collective breath lest we both lose conciousness.

And without a major increase in European capabilities both in combat-ready forces and ability to do non-combat training and relief work in dangerous areas (both increasing glacially if at all), and commensurate improvement in European national will to do the tough jobs, what do we have?

We have the 2000's all over again, that is what. Germany & Germans clamoring to make policy for the weight-bearing members of NATO to carry out because Germans cannot and will not do so.

The weight-bearers aren't taking Germany & France terribly seriously any more for excellent reason, and Merkel's snakil-like progress ain't helping very much!
 
Heinrich  Bonnenberg

July 22, 2008

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Once more:

Europe is not EU. Europe is EU and Russia and others.
EU is not "we Europeans", at most "we Westeuropeans", based on Magna Charta, British Bill of Rights, United States Declaration of Independence, French Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, values of 1848, Geneva Conventions and more, and let's not forget the Westeuropean philosophers Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Immanuel Kant and others.

For a peaceful future of Europe with much strength for the worldwide competition, we need honest bridges between Westeuropean civilisation and Easteuropean civilisation to develop Pan-European civilisation. Hopefully the new president of US will be sensible of this necessity, mainly with regard to Russia as a part of Europe!!! If he is not, we should inform him as soon as possible, starting in Berlin next days, at the worldwide most successful place of integration.

 
Unregistered User

July 23, 2008

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ok, did anyone remove my comment ?
 
Unregistered User

July 23, 2008

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well as I still can remember my purpose, I said that the relation between EU and US won't fondamentally change with an Obama in office, for he will not be able to make the policy he said he would do. The security policy of the US is defined independantly of who is in the White house.

All the rest are just colored words, depends on which camp you stand for

We only expect easier relations with the possible political correctness come-back ; though we all know what that means behind the vernice.

here is a video that explains it :

http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=...
 
Joerg  Wolf

July 23, 2008

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@ Franchie

We did not delete any comment in this threat.

Sorry that your's disappeared. Thanks for reposting.
 
Member deleted

July 25, 2008

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I totally agree with comment of Mr.Bonnenberg, people many times are forgetting that almost half of Europe´s territory and 30 % population is not EU members. Western Europe shows only one part of wholeness of our continent, eastern Europe and also Byzantium are part of continent´s history. European Perspective can point East as well than West.

Ironically Ambassador Ischinger was the EU representative in the Troika negotiations on Kosovo, which (the Kosovo question) highlights the core problem of EU - uncritical following of US foreign (cowboy) policy . Some times I ask if it is EU or only UK the 51st state of USA. However I totally agree with his view, that Europe should actively develop strategic initiatives to US. I only wish to include East in same packet.
 
Donald  Stadler

July 26, 2008

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Actually I don't think the EU can be accurately described as Western European after the expansion, unless, Poland, Hungary, Bohemia, Slovakia, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and Finland are part of Western Europe. There is a Mitteleuropean element to the EU now as well as the Western European part.

The problem I have with Herr Bonnenberg's posts is not the idea that Russia is part of Europe, but his adament denials that Asia Minor (currently Turkey) is part of Europe. Sorry, Istanbul is one of the capitals of Europe, and Asia Minor has historically been a far more vital part of Europe than Moskovy ever was. Religion has very little to do with it - look at the culture, the archeological heritage. Magna Graecia is one of the natal civilizations Europe is based upon. So where was Magna Graecia - not only in Greece but also Sicily, Southern IKtaly, - and Asia Minor. Turkey is part of Europe culturally.
 
Heinrich  Bonnenberg

July 26, 2008

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Donald!
Culturally spoken, all the nations you have mentioned are belonging to latin Europe. Concerning civilization they are Westeuropeans. Example: Poland's towns have implemeted the Westeuropean town privileges in medieval times , e.g. the Magdeburg right. And the szlachta (nobility) of Poland took pride in their freedoms and parliamentary system. The polish reforms, particularly those of the Great Sejm, which passed the Constitution of May 3, 1791, was the world's second modern constitution, totally influenced by Westeuropean philosophers.
Of course, Constantinople is a very essential cultural root of Europe. Renaissance in latin Europe was mainely influenced by philosophers, artists etc coming from Constantinople. But Constantinople is not Turkey. In spite of this difference I am favouring that Turkey will be an associate of future Pan-Europe. Also because of this goal, we have to find our Pan-European civilization, the future identity of Pan-Europe.
 
Donald  Stadler

July 27, 2008

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Not only Constantinople, Her Bonneberg, but Ephesus, Pergamon, Smyrna, Adrianople, and even Antioch way out east. Look at the Christian cave cities of Cappodocia. Plus other cities which I omit. Look at the architecture. Look at the famous people who came from those plces and who are counted as part of the Greek heritage, which is a major part of the european culture. Geographically Asia Minor is part of Europe. Even the Ottoman Turks were heavily influenced by Europe - they are at least half European, probably more. Compare them to the Arabs - arabs they are not!
 
Unregistered User

July 27, 2008

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But not with their DNA : turkishes are asiates, and not with their religion : islam
plus they are eliminating the christian minorities that lived there in peace till the last decades
 
Heinrich  Bonnenberg

July 27, 2008

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Of course, the main roots of European civilisations are the thoughts of Plato and the message of Christ. Based on these roots, we West-Europeans, the “Latin” Europeans, have developed our horizontally democratic civilisation and the East-Europeans, the “Byzantine” Europeans, have developed their vertically democratic civilisation. Both have done it through the centuries with many various experiments.
Turkey has Moslem roots; it is not Europe. Turkish civilisation is far away from “Latin” civilization of the West-Europeans as well as from “Byzantine” civilization of the East-Europeans. But we all are parts of the oriental-occidental family, thankfully basing on the dekalog, but regrettably involved in a war of brothers.
Europe of today is challenged to find a symbiosis of “Latin” and “Byzantine”. By the way, of necessity the European Ukraine - having Latin Polish and Byzantine Russian roots from its history - is working at this challenge just now, a very great act, unfortunately not really identified, not fairly accepted and not backed by the Europeans.
Turkey has to find a symbiosis of the future “Latin-Byzantine” civilisation and the “Moslem” civilization. That is a very hard work, but Turkey with its strength will be successful and will stepwise build the bridge for peace in the oriental-occidental family, backed by our common dekalog. We have to have greatest deference to Turkey, to its government and to its people.
Coming back to ambassador Ischinger's speach, I hope that US will be more sensible in the future of these historical developments.
 
Unregistered User

July 28, 2008

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Well of course the back ground of the western civilisation was/is on turkish soil either, as it was on Egypt's, Lybia's, Algeria's... though who is actually thinking of absorbing them as also "western people" , none !

We can't rely ofn a passed civilisation to decide if the actual Turkey can fit our standards. It is evident that she does less and less since a few decades.

If you ever travelled there a few decades ago, then you could say that these people wanted to become occidental, not anymore : see there the veils have become common.
 
Unregistered User

July 28, 2008

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Europe should be led by Europe and broad relations with the entire world, not just America. US is constantly building new walls. Forward looking progressive Europe must stop that and make up her own mind.

 
Donald  Stadler

July 28, 2008

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Franchie, a word to the wise.... In the US the phrase you used "these people" has become suspect because it was a favorite with people with dubious agendas. Remember the rant you posted on your blog with the fellow ranting about all the 'muzzies' in Paris? If he was a bit smoother he'd be writing about 'these people'.

My impression is that the "these people" you are referring to are muslims already resident in France, no? To an american like me the wearing of head scarves is a trivial matter, but not to the French nI think? I don't think the idea of the 'melting pot' ever caught on in Europe as it did in the US, but the essence of the idea is assimilation. In the US most ethnic groups both assimilate and retain their cultural and religious identity. It is the only way that as diverse a society as ours is able to survive. Orthodox Jews wear their skullcaps, muslims carry their prayer rugs to work and kneel facing Mecca a few times a day, Scots play horrid bagpipe music on weekends, etc. Assimilate in certain important matters (language, certain cultural norms, education), express your differences in other things.

France may find another way - but I doubt that the details will be much different than what we have made work in the US.

I am extremely wary of the broadsides I read from certain Europeans on this site asserting that Turkey is fundamentally incompatible with European civilisation or such drivel. We have successfully assimilated people of many religions in the US & in our experience fundamental incompatibility simply does not exist at least at the group level. Individuals yes, perhaps.

The other thing which disturbs me is that much of Europe seems to be losing it's memory of hard-won victories in the past. Zola wrote 'J'Accuse' as part of such a victory, remember? Are Muslims so different from Jews? I think not....
 
Unregistered User

July 28, 2008

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Don, the person that your referring to on my blog is an american girl ; she appears also on another topic where you had both you and tedders quite a vivid conter argumentation.

She is a deeply a "dems", though she carried out all the clichés that a "typical american" has when he/she lives in our countries.

I can speak of Turkey, I have been there quite a few times in the seventies, and some of my former highschool fellows married a Turk from Istambul, though, upper class men.

The way you allow people to settle in your country is different : the people know that they have to forget their former nationality, not in our countries, they keep their double nationalities ; and as a nation in EU, Turkey has more than 70 millons inhabitants, that means that she'll have a great weight in the EU policy and decisions.

I am not referring to muslims as a common entity, but rather to the integrism part of them, that also seems to rule Turkey nowadays. Did you ever read what Erdogan says ?

the Zola sentence your quoting, was ment for the Dreyfus case. There isn't any possibility that it applies for the Turks or any magreb country.

 
Donald  Stadler

July 29, 2008

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Franchie, I ASSURE you that ranting about 'muzzies' -or stereotyping Paris as a place from which Jews were systematically purged (as she mentioned) - are not 'typical american' behavior. When I visit Paris (my next visit will be my 5th) I am usually too excighted working out whether to visit the Louvre or the D'Orsay first - or maybe Notre Dame or Sacre Coeur this time? Or walk through the Marais or down Rue Cler. A visit to Paris is a rare enough event in the life of a 'typical american' that most waste no time worrying about muslims (who are mostly in the suburbs anyway) or about absent Jews. The details may vary - a fashion hound may fanticise about wheher to vist Hermes or the Gleries first, a gourmet about whether to hit Ducasse or Tailevent first, but the principal is the same.

Besides, there are more muslims in London than Paris, I think, and more 'active' too. In the 7/7 and 7/21 sense I mean. I see lots of muslims every day because there are many in my part of London - bu don't obsess about potential terrorist plots. If a bomb fragment has my name on it - well I go. Otherwise life is too short to worry overmuch.
 
Nazira  Toktalieva

July 30, 2008

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It was a wishful thinking by Marek to say in one of his previous comments that "or even Kazakhstan, belong to the European circle of civilization and may join any institutional > political > military structure that civilization creates"... This is really strange thing to say... The Republic of Kazakhstan is first and foremost like any other Central Asian/Eurasian republic is Turkic speaking, Sunni Moslem by religion, with nomadic cultural civilization influenced by mixture of Turkic, Arabic, Mongolian, Persian heritages and of course common Soviet past. In theory Turkey should come under the Pan-Turkistan union based on: religion, language and culture, which will include: Turkey, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, all Turkic-speaking minorities in Russia based in Crimea, Uighur Autonomous Region of China and perhaps Mongolia and Iran.

As a young representative of Central Asian/Eurasian region I would be estranged by the fixed term "European" because as we know and were taught "Europe" is purely a political term and "Eurasia" is a geographically correct term. I would propose to use "Eurasia" which would be more acceptable for Central Asian/Eurasian republics in order to belong to the Eurasian circle of civilization and possibly join any institutional>political>military structure that civilization creates. For the same reason I think it is time now that the OSCE should change the last word in its name from Europe to Eurasia.

I have a question to Mr. Heinrich Bonnenberg: if you are stating that Russia is a part of Europe, and as for me Russia is Eurasia, and Turkey is a part of Asia, then how do you explain the fact that Turkey is a member of predominantly pan-European NATO, whereas Russia is a member of predominantly EurAsian/Asian Shanghai Cooperation Ogranisation?
 
Heinrich  Bonnenberg

July 31, 2008

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Nazira!
Geographically spoken, in Europe 48 states are existing, with parts of Russian Federation (ca 73 % of its population), of Turkey (ca 12 % of its population) and of Kazakhstan (ca 1 % of its population).
Culturally spoken, Europe consists of 47 states, inclusive Russian Federation and Cyprus, the last because of its European history, although geographically belonging to Asia. This Europe has about 724 Million people (491 Million people in EU, 142 Million people in Russian Federation, 46 Million people in Ukraine and 45 Million people in the rest). The European Union comprehends 27 members of which only 21 states are belonging to NATO, which was established in 1949 as a collective self-defense system against the enemy Soviet Union, under the leadership of the United States of America. Only because of this military reason Turkey has been taken, as Canada.
NATO is not EU!!

Russia's cooperation with the Shanghai Group is very essential for Russia, firstly because China is the most powerful danger for Russia with its day by day migration to Sibiria, already till Omsk, and secondly because the Moslem structures in Central Asia are influencing Russian Federation with its instabilities in Kasan, Ufa, Grosniy and so on and thirdly because Russia has been not fairly accepted by EU up to now.

Of course Russia has many Asian influences from history, e.g. zar is the symbiosis of European imperator and Asian khan, one of the main reasons that Russia has developed the vertically structured democracy, also influnces by bycanthine. But at the end, Russia is a cultural part of Europe, because of the common roots of Plato and Christ which by the way Turkey does not have.

Where is the political and moral center of Pan-Turkestan?
 
Unregistered User

August 4, 2008

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well Europe come from the greek and phenician legends : means looking towards the diving sun ; I am afraid, it never included asia in it !

now the tree of languages shows that we have an asian branch, India, common in all the european languages, except for the basque and may-be some people in Hungaria

Don, your a good typical opened-mind american tourist, except when it is question of planes :lol:

though, if you'd check on my place I got a recent billet on Paris from another typical american tourist, and you'll see that I am not exagerating

Generally I am defending our muslims, that are integrating at 75 %.

see also on the referred post the links I provided
 

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